I don't despise the F35b it will be a good platform once its sorted out but it isn't a miracle weapon there is so much hype and Bullshit going round about it. Its time to start looking past the bullshit at what it will actually be able to do and start being realistic about its deployment. There is ...

Have you ever heard of airdefence missiles? F35 to carry ANY meaningful load over any distance is going to loose its stealth capability to weapons and drop tanks slung under wings at that point AD radar will see them and your nice slow moving Merlins, chinooks etc are easy pray for Missile and gun ...

1: When I say "Mistral like", I mean Mistral like "shaped" vessel with RN standard. I never said it is cheap. I like it because the flight deck is larger than Canberra. Also without ski jump, it is even more so. Both the Canberra and Mistral have a flight deck with six helicopte...

If the theory is the carriers are to be rotated one at shore one on duties, why would you then have an lpd built to have aircraft capability ,when you could deploy the second carrier as an accompaniment unless the R.N is engaged in multiple theatre engagements ww3? Using the RN's current platform a...

I'm sure it works fine, but i'm not a fan of the looks of "HMS Vessel Name"

if you look at a limited landing for example to evacuate UK/Commonwealth nationals or at the top end a falklands type operation thats what our amphibious capability should be mainly to support the insertion and extraction of a Brigade + as primary mission. Full scale Normandy type ops I don't think...

Mostly agree with that paragraph. I don't believe we will intend to operate in an environment as you describe, but it is impossible to rule out a rapid response of that manner so platforms need to be advanced. I'm not talking about going over a beach teeming with modern artillery and AShM batteries...

I do not think so. Build 2 with similar standards as Canberra, and then 2 with less redundancy, simpler machinaries, slower well-flooding pump, and so on. Hull welding is not the main cost driver. Internal fit out is. So, with reduce fit out standard, the cost will be significantly lower. Bombs and...

I am also against Camberra-like LHDs. The reasons are: - it needs "~2 Bay replacement LPDs" in addition to the 2 LHDs, which adds design and operation costs. Why would that be the case? We're going to need a replacement for the three Bays anyway, they're such incredibly useful ships that ...

Sorry I was not clear, yes the Juan Carlos design was developed from for the Canberra class ,unlike the Juan Carlos the Canberra class was built to Lloyds of London spec extra cost also the Canberra class was further developed for control and communications as a" flag ship role" The R.N c...

I don't think it is a continuum, I think there is a big step in the curve. Broadly speaking I agree, although there are countries that build to far more lax "military standards" than the UK, in the RN the difference between naval and commercial (even part commercial) standards is pretty s...

With the extra abilities of the Canberra class over the Juan Carlos ,would those be needed if as likely to be operated with the carriers ,obviously some savings there I think you'll find it's the other way around. The Auatralian Canberras are essentially Juan Carlos I copies with some of the below-...

SKB wrote:18 rubber dinghies are cheaper.

Stop giving the Treasury ideas!

Engaging Strategy, ArmChairCivvy and Ron5, I have moved your amphibious shipping posts to the Future RN Amphibious Shipping thread, as requested by Engaging Strategy. Feel free to resume your discussion there. http://ukdefenceforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=603&start=120#p29063 Many thanks. :)

Considering the government wants an exportable ship, how many poorer countries with limited shipbuilding facilities operate a Merlin sized helicopter? I suppose the way to sell a big hangar is to ensure part of it doubles as a mission bay when you only stow a small utility helicopter in it. Maybe b...

I would suggest it needs to be merlin capable, we have an excellent piece of kit that should be included on our light ASW frigate. I would like to look towards a combined hanger and mission bay. I don't understand why we don't see more frigates with a full width hanger like the freedom class. A ful...

Whilst I'd say that the UK Police Force should have the lead for everything within 3 miles of the shore, I'd say that the UK Border Force fleet should be disbanded and the RN fleet expanded to meet the need, hosting UK Border Force boarding parties. IMO that's completely the wrong approach. Remembe...

Are you sure? (they won't both be fully manned). I would have thought guaranteeing 100% CVF availability, which is what your dear (departed) leader did, requires 2 full crews. Unless you're going to ban all leave, courses etc.. I believe the plan is that they'll both be "fully manned" in ...

ArmChairCivvy wrote:As an economist, my slogan is "more is better" like yours, but then again what is efficient might not be the best in the terms of effectiveness?

Have requested the mods move this series of posts to a more appropriate thread. Standby.

- that is all agreed, but you may want to go and look for the (joint) doctrine publications, for these matters (as I have done) and come back and report what they (if found) say about these matters British Maritime Doctrine 4th edition. Pg. 3-18 & 3-19 Littoral Manoeuvre: "340. The UK’s sp...

Errr, 1.7 carriers on average, once the Albions (I know, a long time when we are looking from here) have come to their OSD , what then? Where are you getting 1.7 from? RN ship availability is roughly 3/5, or 1.2 Carriers available at any one time. The .2 is very likely to cover the working-up perio...

I've still yet to see someone point out as to why the Venator is such a flawed design. The term "best of a bad bunch" keeps being thrown around but no one has ever provided a reason as to why this is allegedly the case. To my mind, it is far better than simply being the "best of a ba...

The first two are one and the same (think of the length of the patrols), but the third one takes more than 1, so 50% minimum availabilty it is. I'd argue that one UK ASW combatant for the entire North Atlantic area is laughably inadequate given the current level of Russian activity and their less t...

Sorry I will challenge here. If with 24 (not 12) CAMM, hull sonar and Wildcat, and a gun, I think it can act as a RN frigate. - Not good at ASW? Not a big issue, only a fraction of RN operations need ASW. Cutlass will be inferior to T23 GP in ASW, but not "significantly" inferior. If in f...

I think you'll find that that is why they keep mumbling on about "Exports". Meet our own requirements by meeting other nation's needs as well. Except we know full well that exporting whole large warships just isn't gonna happen. We can do very well exporting components and complex systems...