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by Caribbean
15 Aug 2019, 10:21
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]
Replies: 3922
Views: 285253
Location: England

Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Good point. Is there anyone left to work in it?
by Caribbean
15 Aug 2019, 10:00
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]
Replies: 3922
Views: 285253
Location: England

Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

To put it in perspective, HMS Daring took around 3 years from first steel to float out and another 3.5 years to commissioning. The final one (HMS Duncan) took 3 years 8 months to float out and another 2 years 11 months to commissioning. However, going from memory, I think BAE had a work force around...
by Caribbean
07 Aug 2019, 12:04
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]
Replies: 6177
Views: 384061
Location: England

Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

Yes, they did, along with Ferguson Marine, who have their own problems. At this rate, Babcocks will have to reopen Appledore, if they win the contract!
by Caribbean
04 Aug 2019, 14:03
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion
Replies: 10628
Views: 604713
Location: England

Re: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion

the B2 Rivers aren’t the disaster that perhaps some think The ships themselves seem quite decent, but we should have had them for considerably less than £127m each. A 2000t OPV should have cost around £55-60m (the Irish Samuel Beckett-class are slightly larger and came in at around £65m at today's ...
by Caribbean
04 Aug 2019, 02:42
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion
Replies: 10628
Views: 604713
Location: England

Re: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion

I will never understand the logic for Batch 2 OPV and T31. Surely the combined cost of these 2 projects would have given 5 proper Frigates Well, the £1.25b for the T31 budget plus £635m for the Batch 2 OPVs would have given a budget of £2.135b, which would give a T31 budget of £427m per hull, which...
by Caribbean
03 Aug 2019, 16:00
Forum: Joint Service
Topic: AW159 Wildcat Helicopter (RN & AAC)
Replies: 323
Views: 38293
Location: England

Re: AW159 Wildcat Helicopter (RN & AAC)

Little J wrote:aw189

Wouldn't the 149 be better?
by Caribbean
03 Aug 2019, 15:16
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: River Class (OPV) (RN)
Replies: 2992
Views: 201748
Location: England

Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Problem is that people are pitching the T31 for both roles Agreed that this is the problem, though my solution would be slightly different. My belief is that we need both the T31 and a more capable "patrol frigate", based on the River (RB3). The T31 should be a combat vessel, capable of b...
by Caribbean
03 Aug 2019, 12:55
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion
Replies: 10628
Views: 604713
Location: England

Re: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion

Surely that's one of the reasons behind the NSS's "distributed shipyard" idea. It's a relatively cheap way of preserving capacity "just in case", and would allow the UK to continue building ships even during disruption caused by a split with Scotland
by Caribbean
03 Aug 2019, 10:16
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: River Class (OPV) (RN)
Replies: 2992
Views: 201748
Location: England

Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Problem is, the up-armed River B2 discussed here is surely NOT escorts And here, once again. we get into the definition of "escort" - in my opinion a virtually meaningless descriptor on its own. Every ship can be an escort - it just has different functions and capabilities. An up-armed (a...
by Caribbean
31 Jul 2019, 09:21
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion
Replies: 10628
Views: 604713
Location: England

Re: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion

Just to add to Poiuytrewq's list. The A140 design has also been updated to comply with ANEP77 build standards (so it is to RN specifications) and the parent design, at least, allows for additional URN-reduction features, such as engine rafting, on a shock-tested hull that is already rated for NATO A...
by Caribbean
31 Jul 2019, 09:07
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Amphibious Capability - General Discussion
Replies: 2337
Views: 150180
Location: England

Re: Current & Future Amphibious Capability - General Discussion

Well - there does seem to be a move to include EMF and mission bays into most new surface combattants for the RN - perhaps more a reflection on the fact that we see SF type raids as more important in the future than for the reasons given in that article, but possibly borne out of the same realisatio...
by Caribbean
29 Jul 2019, 22:42
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion
Replies: 10628
Views: 604713
Location: England

Re: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion

5000 tonnes was the minimum size quoted and that was just to meet the current accommodation standards, nothing else. ExLs are not in use by the RN, but Mk41 are and the 76mm has not been adopted either, with the 4.5" being dropped in favour of the 5". With increasing ASuW missile speeds, t...
by Caribbean
29 Jul 2019, 21:51
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion
Replies: 10628
Views: 604713
Location: England

Re: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion

Many of us have, @SW1, here and on TD. According to those who claim to know about these things, RN crews are so fat and pampered now that it would need to be at least 5000t to accommodate them, plus another 1000t to accommodate the Mk41 cells, 5" gun and CAMM cells, expanded beam to allow for t...
by Caribbean
29 Jul 2019, 09:08
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion
Replies: 10628
Views: 604713
Location: England

Re: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion

is about its to have a vessel that takes the T26s place in that role so me it’d have to be just as good at ASW with our question .... then it would likely cost the same as a T26. That last 10-15% is expensive. The major difference is likely to be that even if built to best standards achievable for ...
by Caribbean
29 Jul 2019, 08:15
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion
Replies: 10628
Views: 604713
Location: England

Re: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion

If so what we’d end up with is pretty much a T26 with 24 CAMM and 16 Mk41s odd and maybe only a merlins flight deck.! .... at 60-65% of the cost (and maybe 85-90% of the capability - wouldn't be as good at passive ASW as the T26, but still quite capable). The IH design can take 36 Mk41, so an A140 ...
by Caribbean
27 Jul 2019, 22:30
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion
Replies: 10628
Views: 604713
Location: England

Re: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion

Repulse wrote:If each CSG had 2 T45 + 3 T26 escorts, plus 3 for FRE/TAPS this would mean 12 T26s

I think we are one carrier short for that (and about 24 F35b)
SW1 wrote:Who knew all needed to keep those pesky Russians out of the channel was a handful of sunseekers with machine guns up front

We can't afford Sunseekers.
by Caribbean
27 Jul 2019, 13:44
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion
Replies: 10628
Views: 604713
Location: England

Re: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion

In my opinion this mini crisis in the Gulf has vindicated the T31 to some extent and increases the likelihood of a second batch to follow-on. Unfortunately it also makes any further T26's even less likely which is a great shame. I would agree with that. The sort of escort duty required in the Gulf ...
by Caribbean
25 Jul 2019, 12:19
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion
Replies: 10628
Views: 604713
Location: England

Re: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion

Hi, not my quote. You'll have to sort out the html tags to get it to quote correctly, or delete the post and re-post it
by Caribbean
25 Jul 2019, 07:35
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion
Replies: 10628
Views: 604713
Location: England

Re: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion

An Arrowhead A140 at £312m is a very tempting option but I think it will cost nearly that to build it So Babcock's don't know how to price or build a ship, but us interweb experts do? A 6000 tonne civilian hull costs around £15m. How much more expensive is the same hull built to military standards?...
by Caribbean
23 Jul 2019, 08:00
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: River Class (OPV) (RN)
Replies: 2992
Views: 201748
Location: England

Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

If it turns out that an Arrowhead 140 can be built in the UK with 24 CAMM for £250m then I agree current planning may still be on the right track but I still struggle to see how it's possible. Especially considering of the four yards that initially made up Team31, Appledore is shut, Fergusons is go...
by Caribbean
22 Jul 2019, 21:33
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: River Class (OPV) (RN)
Replies: 2992
Views: 201748
Location: England

Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

I disagree
by Caribbean
22 Jul 2019, 21:17
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: River Class (OPV) (RN)
Replies: 2992
Views: 201748
Location: England

Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Poiuytrewq wrote:if the Batch2 Rivers had of been fitted with Hangers the T31's would never have happened

.... and we would be looking at a Navy of 9 T26 and 6 OPVs
by Caribbean
21 Jul 2019, 16:33
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion
Replies: 10628
Views: 604713
Location: England

Re: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion

And how many Wildcats/Apaches will she carry? How many can be ready for take off at any time? FLSS is simply a cconverted merchant ship. You don't have to be very effective to harm her. And, considering that RN ships will probably not fire if Boghammers aren't really close, how many of them is enou...
by Caribbean
21 Jul 2019, 14:08
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion
Replies: 10628
Views: 604713
Location: England

Re: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion

Don't agree. FLSS can be just a floating target there. Hormuz isn't the Horn of Africa or Gulf of Guinea. Floating target for what, exactly? The IRG has nothing bigger than motor boats with manually operated guns and basic (usually unguided) missile systems. Sitting ducks for Wildcat (or even Apach...
by Caribbean
18 Jul 2019, 08:00
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion
Replies: 10628
Views: 604713
Location: England

Re: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion

The only hope is for either of the two contender for the Conservative leadership job to actually remain in power longer enough to actually realise their promises to increase the Defence Budget to 2.5% GDP, and for that figure to remain until the start of the 2040s at least. But I wouldn't bet my ho...

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