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by Poiuytrewq
29 Jul 2019, 10:46
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion
Replies: 10183
Views: 492994
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion

If so what we’d end up with is pretty much a T26 with 24 CAMM and 16 Mk41s odd and maybe only a merlins flight deck.! .... at 60-65% of the cost (and maybe 85-90% of the capability - wouldn't be as good at passive ASW as the T26, but still quite capable). Personally I think the French FTI is the be...
by Poiuytrewq
28 Jul 2019, 16:10
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion
Replies: 10183
Views: 492994
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion

I am not a fan of up-arming OPV's to make up for gaps in the escort fleet but a single 30mm was never going to be sufficient for global deployment. Personally I don't consider adding a 57/76mm, 2x 30mm's and Phalanx FFBNW as up-arming as this is what they should of had in the first place. In my opin...
by Poiuytrewq
28 Jul 2019, 08:45
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion
Replies: 10183
Views: 492994
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion

Some big statements here, can you explain how the current situation backs this up? Very simple. The current situation in the Gulf requires vessels that are built to fight and win but not Tier1 assets like T26/T45. Basically something along the lines of a T31. In my opinion these mini-crisis that in...
by Poiuytrewq
27 Jul 2019, 10:46
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion
Replies: 10183
Views: 492994
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion

Interesting overview here with some illuminating quotes. Worth a read. https://www.defensenews.com/naval/2019/07/25/in-a-naval-confrontation-with-iran-great-britain-can-find-neither-ships-nor-friends/ Luckily our new PM is very keen on building more ships for the Royal Navy. Here is how the Sun repo...
by Poiuytrewq
25 Jul 2019, 13:00
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion
Replies: 10183
Views: 492994
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion

Our new PM in the Commons has just stated in reply to an excellent question from Dr Julian Lewis MP (Chair Defence Select Committee) that he has a "strong desire" to raise defence spending and in particular increase UK shipbuilding. Make of that what you will but it's got to be positive ne...
by Poiuytrewq
25 Jul 2019, 08:33
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion
Replies: 10183
Views: 492994
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion

So Babcock's don't know how to price or build a ship, but us interweb experts do? A 6000 tonne civilian hull costs around £15m. How much more expensive is the same hull built to military standards? Four times as much? The strength of the A140 is that your integration costs are vastly reduced as you...
by Poiuytrewq
24 Jul 2019, 23:39
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion
Replies: 10183
Views: 492994
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion

....but surely if an increase in the defence budget is forth coming.... Boris Johnson has not made any clear commitments about increasing defence spending. It simply does not appear to be a priority for him as he has promised massive spending increases in other areas but not a peep about defence. E...
by Poiuytrewq
24 Jul 2019, 21:52
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion
Replies: 10183
Views: 492994
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion

If budget increase is coming couldn’t the T26 build rate be increased with first speeding up the build time line and then adding extra before dropping in to the T45 replacement ? Absolutely but each extra T26 would probably cost in the region of £750m minimum. I haven't seen or heard anyone either ...
by Poiuytrewq
24 Jul 2019, 10:05
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion
Replies: 10183
Views: 492994
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion

Some sense from Penny Mordaunt in the Telegraph, argues for the need of a long term vision, the importance of manpower etc and the need to stop focusing on design initiatives and low build numbers per class. Seems like every day someone else goes on record to demand more ships - apart from Boris Jo...
by Poiuytrewq
23 Jul 2019, 10:16
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion
Replies: 10183
Views: 492994
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion

Somewhere in amongst all the dancing around the question is a realisation that the cuts have gone too far and a rebuilding process is needed. This is a common theme now with both serving and ex government ministers.
by Poiuytrewq
22 Jul 2019, 23:56
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion
Replies: 10183
Views: 492994
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion

....right now the only real solution is to form a multinational force under the command of US CENTCOM and organise convoys for ships wishing protection through the Straits. Personally I think the answer is to provide RM security parties for all UK shipping transiting the choke-point. I really can't...
by Poiuytrewq
22 Jul 2019, 23:46
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: River Class (OPV) (RN)
Replies: 2846
Views: 163768
Location: United Kingdom

Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

donald_of_tokyo wrote:If UK were building ~105 m long OPV-H using the 630M GBP spent on 5 River B2s, I guess the number will be “3”.
Seems expensive at £210m per hull for a 105m OPV.

The 108m Holland Class at £100m each would seem like fantastic value for money by comparison.
by Poiuytrewq
22 Jul 2019, 23:40
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: River Class (OPV) (RN)
Replies: 2846
Views: 163768
Location: United Kingdom

Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

I disagree If it turns out that an Arrowhead 140 can be built in the UK with 24 CAMM for £250m then I agree current planning may still be on the right track but I still struggle to see how it's possible. Especially considering of the four yards that initially made up Team31, Appledore is shut, Ferg...
by Poiuytrewq
22 Jul 2019, 21:29
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: River Class (OPV) (RN)
Replies: 2846
Views: 163768
Location: United Kingdom

Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

if the Batch2 Rivers had of been fitted with Hangers the T31's would never have happened .... and we would be looking at a Navy of 9 T26 and 6 OPVs Good chance we might have got 10. That would have been, 6x T45's 10x T26's 5x RB2's at 105m LOA and wildcat hanger 4x RB1's Actually I think it compare...
by Poiuytrewq
22 Jul 2019, 20:03
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: River Class (OPV) (RN)
Replies: 2846
Views: 163768
Location: United Kingdom

Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

abc123 wrote:The only fault is that she lacks hanger.
I agree and I think it's fair to say that if the Batch2 Rivers had of been fitted with Hangers the T31's would never have happened.
by Poiuytrewq
21 Jul 2019, 20:05
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion
Replies: 10183
Views: 492994
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion

Don't agree. FLSS can be just a floating target there. Hormuz isn't the Horn of Africa or Gulf of Guinea. True but realistically in the Gulf everything's a floating target including the Bays and MCMV'S. RN just needs to be given the escorts to protect them as well as the commercial shipping transit...
by Poiuytrewq
21 Jul 2019, 12:45
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion
Replies: 10183
Views: 492994
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion

The Straights represent a very busy shipping lane, if only we had a Helicopter carrier, carrying a dozen or so Widcats armed with Gpmg and LLM. Oh....... :oops: Its clear now to everyone that the cuts since 2010 have gone too far. Although this mini crisis is embarrassing for the UK, it's great new...
by Poiuytrewq
18 Jul 2019, 09:34
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion
Replies: 10183
Views: 492994
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion

The only hope is for either of the two contender for the Conservative leadership job to actually remain in power longer enough to actually realise their promises to increase the Defence Budget to 2.5% GDP, and for that figure to remain until the start of the 2040s at least. But I wouldn't bet my ho...
by Poiuytrewq
15 Jul 2019, 12:25
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion
Replies: 10183
Views: 492994
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion

Is this where’s modern British version of the Absalon class could come in handy and come in to there own ? Maybe, but how would an Absalon deploy a 15m/30t UUV? The wide 20m beam would be an advantage for stability but some pretty large alterations would be necessary to enable it. On paper with the...
by Poiuytrewq
15 Jul 2019, 09:29
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion
Replies: 10183
Views: 492994
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion

Either that or Poiuytrewq uses a new definition of 'capable'. It depends how you define capability in the 2030's/2040's. An Avenger or PPA style vessel, with a large amidships working deck serviced by a heavy duty deck crane may well be what is needed to deploy the ASW UUV's or XLUUV's of the futur...
by Poiuytrewq
13 Jul 2019, 20:41
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion
Replies: 10183
Views: 492994
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion

Poiuytrewq , The Avenger had a CAMM VLS amidships (12 cells I believe), Artisan and 2 x 30mms - change the 114mm gun with something smaller and you are pretty much at what you describe for the T31 above. Would like more of a mission bay at he rear and this is my vision of a B3 River Sloop https://w...
by Poiuytrewq
13 Jul 2019, 20:10
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion
Replies: 10183
Views: 492994
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion

Adding a hull sonar will still keep it a sitting duck. Modern SSK threat is not that low. In the Gulf, I guess modern torpedo defense system will be more important, such as Sea Sentor RN has. Agreed but that's not a good reason to start building Frigates without an ASW capability. I am not suggesti...
by Poiuytrewq
13 Jul 2019, 13:33
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion
Replies: 10183
Views: 492994
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion

Interesting that the suggestion is to possibly increase T31's or the 'excellent OPV's'. There could be a number of good options here lets say we end up with a 120 meter Leander as the T-31 this could open the door to three options 1 ) more T-31's 2 ) after the 5 120 meter Leander's are built we cou...
by Poiuytrewq
12 Jul 2019, 09:51
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]
Replies: 3909
Views: 242819
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Meanwhile progress on HMS Glasgow continues, slowly.
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by Poiuytrewq
12 Jul 2019, 09:44
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion
Replies: 10183
Views: 492994
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion

Although this a commitment from a politician who is extremely unlikely to be our next PM, it serves to highlight the issues within RN and is a welcome intervention nonetheless. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/07/11/time-put-money-mouth-defence-funding-starting-royal-navy/ For those that ca...

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