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News, History, Discussions and Debates on UK Defence.

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by Engaging Strategy
24 Sep 2017, 19:15
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Mine countermeasures and Hydrographic capability (MHC) (MHPC)
Replies: 594
Views: 36810
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Mine countermeasures and Hydrographic capability (MHC) (MHPC)

Engaging strategy Do you really think you pay for something when you order it? The budget maybe ring fenced but we’re still paying for it now. As the got lord adm west said recently everyone knew the carriers would cost more than the 3.7b max budget agreed. But then it’s an old mod problem get a pr...
by Engaging Strategy
24 Sep 2017, 14:45
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Mine countermeasures and Hydrographic capability (MHC) (MHPC)
Replies: 594
Views: 36810
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Mine countermeasures and Hydrographic capability (MHC) (MHPC)

Defence knew what there budget was. The navy control there bit of the budget it was a known budget. Except the carriers were ordered in 2007, long before the massive cuts of 2010. When your largest surface ship capability program budget doubles in size within a finite budget things get cut. Remind ...
by Engaging Strategy
24 Sep 2017, 13:06
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Mine countermeasures and Hydrographic capability (MHC) (MHPC)
Replies: 594
Views: 36810
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Mine countermeasures and Hydrographic capability (MHC) (MHPC)

The price of carrier strike, a price that will continue to grow and a navy high command prepared to gut a navy to pay for a capability that will now be a shadow of what was initially envisaged. Chickens of sdsr15 are starting to come home to roost. Blaming everything on carrier strike is a tired ca...
by Engaging Strategy
22 Sep 2017, 13:48
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion
Replies: 9825
Views: 422403
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion

If there wasn't a massive driving need for upgrading the navy in recent times though, perhaps that may have been the case. Despite the naysaying the navy *is* actually undergoing a massive modernisation within the budget it has to work with. There isn't masses of extra money to play with. As I said...
by Engaging Strategy
22 Sep 2017, 11:42
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion
Replies: 9825
Views: 422403
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion

The issue is the base model the RN look to be heading for is less capable than the T23. That is never ok. The Type 26 is shaping up to be very much more capable than the Type 23. If we had chosen to replicate the capabilities of Type 23 in a slightly more modern form we likely could've gotten 13 &q...
by Engaging Strategy
16 Sep 2017, 11:58
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: River Class (OPV) (RN)
Replies: 2770
Views: 142826
Location: United Kingdom

Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

The resulting public and political pressure resulted in the Type 21 orders. They ran massively over cost during build and, although popular with the younger officers for their speed & spacious accommodation, attracted zero export orders, needed expensive surgery to fix weaknesses in their hulls...
by Engaging Strategy
15 Sep 2017, 17:12
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]
Replies: 5942
Views: 279485
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

I see little reason to believe otherwise at present. Whatever genuine capability we have left now, from the carriers and CASD, all the way down through to our small arms inventory, is part of such a disjointed, gutted system they can no longer function as we would wish them to, and as we need them ...
by Engaging Strategy
15 Sep 2017, 17:02
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]
Replies: 5942
Views: 279485
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

~UNiOnJaCk~ wrote:Well then...The Army's already halfway down the pan, the Navy now following swiftly after it and the RAF is hardly fairing much better. Perhaps i'm just letting my mood get the better of me but it seems we are finished...


Nope. Not even slightly.
by Engaging Strategy
15 Sep 2017, 16:21
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: River Class (OPV) (RN)
Replies: 2770
Views: 142826
Location: United Kingdom

Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Gabriele wrote:They were. Particularly the initial, short design that everyone knew would not work that well.


The initial design was the long version. It was shortened to save money.
by Engaging Strategy
15 Sep 2017, 16:14
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]
Replies: 5942
Views: 279485
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

I agree it should be reported that the navy is losing 5 frigates full stop and I just don't understand why the 1st sea lord is not standing up and saying so ,not spinning the guv line about having another 5 opv and calling them frigates ,it really is a joke and the national newspapers should be rep...
by Engaging Strategy
15 Jul 2017, 09:24
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion
Replies: 9825
Views: 422403
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion

Looks like the RN will soon have 11 Sonar 2087 towed array sets. Does this change the calculation on The future escort?
by Engaging Strategy
01 Jul 2017, 22:00
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]
Replies: 3838
Views: 215224
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Type 26 Global Combat Ship [News Only]

Navy News a while back indicated that the names would be related to the Battle of the Atlantic. No Towns sadly.
by Engaging Strategy
22 Jun 2017, 19:59
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion
Replies: 9825
Views: 422403
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion

Consdering that the QE-class will never ( except in maybe some Falklands-type situation ) carry more fighters than CDG, I really wouldn't say that QE is way better... The QEC will almost certainly carry as many fixed wing aircraft as the CdeG. ~24. It also has a lot more space for force protection ...
by Engaging Strategy
21 Jun 2017, 22:42
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion
Replies: 9825
Views: 422403
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion

It is well known. In other words, if the sortie requirement is smaller, a smaller CVF would have been there. This is what I said. With a 45000-50000t FLD CVFs, 2 of them shall be safely active with also 13 T26 secured and even the 1st ship already launched. The relationship between tonnage and cost...
by Engaging Strategy
11 Jun 2017, 12:39
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion
Replies: 9825
Views: 422403
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion

What are these serious problems? Can you give more details? Where do you "stand off" in certain confined waters? How do you control your USVs if "standoff" is a hundred or more miles away? How do you protect them? How do you know your cheap steel hulled mothership isn't going to...
by Engaging Strategy
11 Jun 2017, 09:20
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion
Replies: 9825
Views: 422403
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion

As the MHC programme is all about off board systems then the platform could differ depending on the "mission". For example: - CBG Deep Mine Protection: (Additional) T26s to act as Motherships? - Literol Survey/ MCM for Amphibious Group: Maybe a LSD or Absalon - Worldwide Survey and UK / C...
by Engaging Strategy
10 Jun 2017, 23:04
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion
Replies: 10033
Views: 675523
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

rbw91 wrote:Humour me please? What's a fast cruise if she does not sail?

Not being provocative, just asking.


Naval term. Shortened form of "made fast" as in tied up alongside. Essentially a practice run of procedures without leaving the wall.
by Engaging Strategy
09 Jun 2017, 05:20
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion
Replies: 9825
Views: 422403
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion

That is what escorts will always do, and the Argentines cannot have possibly expected anything different. They chose to attack the escorts first, not just out of some kind of "panic". Repeatedly, they had the chance to go for the troopships or other big, key targets. They did not, and tha...
by Engaging Strategy
08 Jun 2017, 15:36
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion
Replies: 9825
Views: 422403
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion

With a big help from the Argies, who focused their efforts on the escorts, for who knows what weird reason. Shudder to think what would have happened had they been a little bit smarter. The escorts in San Carlos water were deliberately placed up threat sp the Argentines would see and attack them fi...
by Engaging Strategy
08 Jun 2017, 14:17
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion
Replies: 9825
Views: 422403
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion

Type 21 did ok in the Falklands? Two were sank and another got hit by a torpedo and was extremely lucky the torpedo was a dud. Out of the Severn we deployed three took fatal hits, that's an unacceptable rate. Type 21 did it's job. It got sunk, the amphibious ships and carriers whose loss would've r...
by Engaging Strategy
19 May 2017, 18:25
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion
Replies: 9825
Views: 422403
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion

From the Conservative manifesto. Seems the Parker Report may actually be implemented. GPFF programme mentioned also. Seems it's still the intention to go ahead with it.
by Engaging Strategy
15 Mar 2017, 11:23
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion
Replies: 9825
Views: 422403
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion

marktigger wrote:in recent operations How much ASW work has the royal Navy had to do or AAW?


An enormous amount, considering ASW and AAW activities do not begin and end with the firing of a missile/torpedo.
by Engaging Strategy
05 Mar 2017, 19:44
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion
Replies: 9825
Views: 422403
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion

If my memory serves me correctly, 4-5 years ago costs for single Type 26 were mentioned in 300-500 mil. pounds ballpark? And now, it's 700-800 mil. What went wrong? Pushed to the right and several extensive redesigns. Also T26 went from T23 redux: Early-Type-26-Image-6-1.jpg To 7500 ton all-singing...
by Engaging Strategy
04 Mar 2017, 12:02
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion
Replies: 9825
Views: 422403
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion

A block build: NOT a constraint; B a central military fitting out yard ("Integrator") where the throughput (counted in years) IS A CONSTRAINT The broader point I was making is that Type 31 solves a lot of problems, from an escort numbers perspective, even if the finished product comes off...

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