Why accept this position as given? Other yards building modules, hell with support could even build complete T26s under licence. Equally T83s can be built by multiple yards. What yards could build a complete T26 under license in the UK? Babcock - Possible. In theory but would two direct competitors...

The Red Sea is a tasking for relatively cheap choke point escorts in numbers as is Hormuz etc. RN don’t have enough T45 to be wasting precious assets on flash points. They need to concentrate on the CSG. Yes there are too few AAW Destroyers, let’s solve that by buying more. Whether you like it or n...

Refusing to upgrade the T31’s with the vague hope of extra T26 is foolish IMO. Such a policy neglects to consider the practical implications of such a decision. If Norway order 5 or more T26 to be built in Govan, RN would likely see no more T26 before 2040. That’s totally unacceptable. RN would end...

… Unfortunately, the T31's are coming. So let's find a job for them. I suggest replacing the Rivers, & the tasks the Rivers currently perform, with them and selling off the older Rivers. No more investment in the class, saving the money to spend elsewhere. I agree and it’s sad that it’s come to...

You have to plan with the budgets / people you have not what you wish for. That statement doesn’t exactly help your argument for more unfunded T26. Fair, but firstly keeping the T31s is not free both in terms of cost and crew, equally selling them will raise funds - so it’s not all over yet. Howeve...

Just out of curiosity did you read Ryan ramsey and Tom sharpes telegraph article on hunting Russia SSNs ? It was behind a paywall, but found a way to get to it. Interesting, but nothing new - you need a multitude of top tier assets to hunt subs; frigates, MPAs, underwater sensors and SSNs - it’s a ...

The current funding level is not sustainable in this security climate and fixing the headcount crisis is the top priority above all others. Therefore the money and crewing issues do not support your argument. You have to plan with the budgets / people you have not what you wish for. This is the par...

Buy the right ships for the job, don’t do it half arsed and don’t pretend buying even more of the same is an answer. Do you accept that there is no historical precedent in the Royal Navy for what you are insisting is the only way forward? That’s the spirit, a good bit of old fashioned blind dogma. ...

Just out of curiosity did you read Ryan ramsey and Tom sharpes telegraph article on hunting Russia SSNs ? It was behind a paywall, but found a way to get to it. Interesting, but nothing new - you need a multitude of top tier assets to hunt subs; frigates, MPAs, underwater sensors and SSNs - it’s a ...

tomuk wrote: ↑17 Apr 2024, 21:47 No its a circular discussion because you just won't except that you're wrong.

When you are clearly wrong you mean.

Buy the right ships for the job, don’t do it half arsed and don’t pretend buying even more of the same is an answer.

This isn't the topic to discuss the Type 31. Posts deleted. Fair enough, though it was in the context of T26 numbers, and a desire from some to fill in any gap to sell to Norway with cheap T31s. I guess I will have to wait once more for someone to explain what is the priority requirement for GP fri...

Caribbean wrote: ↑17 Apr 2024, 14:04 However, the presence of vessels using lower-spec missiles against drones & cruise missiles means that the more capable & expensive missiles can be saved for use against ballistic missiles

So you are going to have two ships there when only one is needed?

The Rivers are clearly pulling more than their weight right now. The Rivers aren't pulling anything. They're doing non-jobs that have been dreamed up specifically to justify their existence. Two are doing roles in the Falklands and Caribbean that have been all along. Gibraltar is new, but I would a...

This isn't the topic to discuss the Type 31. Posts deleted. Fair enough, though it was in the context of T26 numbers, and a desire from some to fill in any gap to sell to Norway with cheap T31s. I guess I will have to wait once more for someone to explain what is the priority requirement for GP fri...

There was loads of complete off-topic stuff about gas prices (I think - only skimmed them long enough to think WTF has this got to do with T32) I only noticed when I came back to try and quote a summary of T26 programme development woes that I put hear to find it and it wasn't here. Just asking bec...

The £11bn for all 13 was let slip by an Admiral back in 2014. The only relevant thing now is what an additional batch would cost. Adjusted for inflation the cost of the last batch of 5 is now £920m. Just with average inflation that cost will rise by £30m-£40m per annum. They are a £1bn Frigate now ...

History 101 So you can't tell me how so? The RN clearly wanted all 13, and there were rumours of a £11bn price tag, the Treasury said no. Yes but it was the navy who messed up the procurement as such that the price rose to that, out of the RN's budget, so if they did ask the treasury for more then ...

I fear you are right, because this comments on this thread seems to represent the wallcharts first requirements & strategy last approach that got us in this shit in the first place. I don’t understand why are not jumping for joy at the news? Surely an extra 5x T26 in the North Atlantic is what ...

Why don’t we get Babcock to build the Norwegian T26s under license from BAE? That way we definitely will not be wasting more money on more T31s or T32s. Never going to happen, What is more likely, much to your annoyance, is that T31 B2 goes ahead, keeps Babcock busy and could alleviate the shortfal...

SW1 wrote: ↑15 Apr 2024, 18:21 The fleet will be looking more and more like the Australian one post review

If that happens then we really are screwed.

Why don’t we get Babcock to build the Norwegian T26s under license from BAE? That way we definitely will not be wasting more money on more T31s or T32s.

History 101 So you can't tell me how so? The RN clearly wanted all 13, and there were rumours of a £11bn price tag, the Treasury said no. Yes but it was the navy who messed up the procurement as such that the price rose to that, out of the RN's budget, so if they did ask the treasury for more then ...

Ok, there'll be a ASW deficit, but don't let perfection be the enemy of good enough. And the RN eventually ends up with the 25 escorts it aspires to. This sums up my issue - why the push of numbers by accepting assets that can’t do the job properly, where no-one can explain the requirement and cann...

History 101 So you can't tell me how so? The RN clearly wanted all 13, and there were rumours of a £11bn price tag, the Treasury said no. Yes but it was the navy who messed up the procurement as such that the price rose to that, out of the RN's budget, so if they did ask the treasury for more then ...

new guy wrote: ↑15 Apr 2024, 15:13

Ron5 wrote: ↑15 Apr 2024, 14:35
History 101

So you can't tell me how so?

The RN clearly wanted all 13, and there were rumours of a £11bn price tag, the Treasury said no.