I love it Ron. I guess we should also have never built the Flower Class Corvette… The Flower Class had a purpose and met a priority requirement - that’s the difference What are these priorities and requirements you keep going on about that T31 doesn't meet? Just repeatedly saying priorities and req...

I heard the shock that went though the place when they realised MOD weren't bluffing on T31 was massive. It was Phil Hammond who cracked the whip, he saw right through the BS first as Def Sec then he took that knowledge to Treasury. There was a crisis meeting on Astute in Downing Street in the earl...

SD67 wrote: ↑16 Apr 2024, 15:14 I love it Ron. I guess we should also have never built the Flower Class Corvette…

The Flower Class had a purpose and met a priority requirement - that’s the difference

The Navy have had patrol frigates before. T31 is just a T21 with longer legs and better growth margins. The Type 21 was a political choice caused by noise from the peanut gallery that private industry could do better and cheaper than the governments own naval architects. Turned out to be an expensi...

….poor choices…..we cannot just brush under the carpet, as we will make it again. Even if you don’t want to acknowledge it the T31 program has learned some of those lessons. If the budget isn’t blown now they will be exceptionally good value. The T32 is in danger of design drift without discipline ...

The £11bn for all 13 was let slip by an Admiral back in 2014. The only relevant thing now is what an additional batch would cost. Adjusted for inflation the cost of the last batch of 5 is now £920m. Just with average inflation that cost will rise by £30m-£40m per annum. They are a £1bn Frigate now ...

History 101 So you can't tell me how so? The RN clearly wanted all 13, and there were rumours of a £11bn price tag, the Treasury said no. Yes but it was the navy who messed up the procurement as such that the price rose to that, out of the RN's budget, so if they did ask the treasury for more then ...

I fear you are right, because this comments on this thread seems to represent the wallcharts first requirements & strategy last approach that got us in this shit in the first place. I don’t understand why are not jumping for joy at the news? Surely an extra 5x T26 in the North Atlantic is what ...

Why don’t we get Babcock to build the Norwegian T26s under license from BAE? That way we definitely will not be wasting more money on more T31s or T32s. Never going to happen, What is more likely, much to your annoyance, is that T31 B2 goes ahead, keeps Babcock busy and could alleviate the shortfal...

SW1 wrote: ↑15 Apr 2024, 18:21 The fleet will be looking more and more like the Australian one post review

If that happens then we really are screwed.

Why don’t we get Babcock to build the Norwegian T26s under license from BAE? That way we definitely will not be wasting more money on more T31s or T32s.

History 101 So you can't tell me how so? The RN clearly wanted all 13, and there were rumours of a £11bn price tag, the Treasury said no. Yes but it was the navy who messed up the procurement as such that the price rose to that, out of the RN's budget, so if they did ask the treasury for more then ...

Ok, there'll be a ASW deficit, but don't let perfection be the enemy of good enough. And the RN eventually ends up with the 25 escorts it aspires to. This sums up my issue - why the push of numbers by accepting assets that can’t do the job properly, where no-one can explain the requirement and cann...

History 101 So you can't tell me how so? The RN clearly wanted all 13, and there were rumours of a £11bn price tag, the Treasury said no. Yes but it was the navy who messed up the procurement as such that the price rose to that, out of the RN's budget, so if they did ask the treasury for more then ...

new guy wrote: ↑15 Apr 2024, 15:13

Ron5 wrote: ↑15 Apr 2024, 14:35
History 101

So you can't tell me how so?

The RN clearly wanted all 13, and there were rumours of a £11bn price tag, the Treasury said no.

Difficult one, but based on 8 you are either cutting TAPS or two ASW escorts for the CSG. Is it not a small price to pay to have another 5x T26 in the North Atlantic? It’s only a one year delay on one hull before the drumbeat can adjust. Squeezing another CSG deployment out of one T23ASW would prob...

Doesn't it kind of depend on the days at sea for a new T26 vs the days at sea for the clapped out T23s theyre replacing. I mean 1 ship to NO might actually not be much of reduction in capability, even if narrowly measured (RN only) We may be able to scrap through with 7 keeping 3 deployed but it’s ...

Does it really matter? Those two type 26s will still be operating, in the same area, hunting the same enemy. The RNs CAPEX gets pushed to the right and the UK wins its largest naval export orderin decades. Also - do the Norwegians need a barely used tanker by any chance? Difficult one, but based on...

But no one can explain what priorities you are trying to address? So you can't define the priorities, but you want to build extremely expensive, dedicated platforms to handle them? Is that what you are saying? Eh? I have absolutely defined why we need 10 ASW and 10 AAW escorts - don’t try and turn ...

It’s a world away from what people get excited about for a cheap T31 pointless class. I think it's more a case that many of us realised the potential and believed that there was more to be got from the platform. If the current plans come to fruition, then the T31 will be an extremely potent surface...

tomuk wrote: ↑15 Apr 2024, 04:54 Which escorts are currently being side tracked to cover OPV/HADR?

Isn’t that exactly what people are so excited about? T31s replacing B2 Rivers?

An escort doesn't have to be a subhunter. T23 GP isn't. An GP escort like T31 can have kit fitted to make a contribution to the ASW hunt (as opposed to self protection) as others earlier have said but it's not a specialist. An escort does not have to be a sub hunted correct, but if the danger is su...

It did have an asw focus but then the Soviet navy was significantly orders of magnitude bigger and more competent than russias today. It was also being done by ships much more like a type 31/FDI type configuration than a type 26 or even a type 23. The majority of the Cold War ASW frigates were the ...

Gawd...still banging on about T31 as a 'light frigate' (with 12-24 CAMM). Yup, would be folly in the Middle East now. But I think the Admiralty got the memo a year or two back. Hence the move to Mk41s. If they display more common sense and find some trivial quididge they give all five 32 cells a la...

Poiuytrewq wrote: ↑14 Apr 2024, 19:23 How do you realistically commission more T26 within a decade?

By accelerating the build of the frigate factory at Govan and get other yards building blocks - more than possible if there is a will.