Buy the right ships for the job, don’t do it half arsed and don’t pretend buying even more of the same is an answer. Do you accept that there is no historical precedent in the Royal Navy for what you are insisting is the only way forward? That’s the spirit, a good bit of old fashioned blind dogma. ...

Just out of curiosity did you read Ryan ramsey and Tom sharpes telegraph article on hunting Russia SSNs ? It was behind a paywall, but found a way to get to it. Interesting, but nothing new - you need a multitude of top tier assets to hunt subs; frigates, MPAs, underwater sensors and SSNs - it’s a ...

tomuk wrote: ↑17 Apr 2024, 21:47 No its a circular discussion because you just won't except that you're wrong.

When you are clearly wrong you mean.

Buy the right ships for the job, don’t do it half arsed and don’t pretend buying even more of the same is an answer.

This isn't the topic to discuss the Type 31. Posts deleted. Fair enough, though it was in the context of T26 numbers, and a desire from some to fill in any gap to sell to Norway with cheap T31s. I guess I will have to wait once more for someone to explain what is the priority requirement for GP fri...

Caribbean wrote: ↑17 Apr 2024, 14:04 However, the presence of vessels using lower-spec missiles against drones & cruise missiles means that the more capable & expensive missiles can be saved for use against ballistic missiles

So you are going to have two ships there when only one is needed?

The Rivers are clearly pulling more than their weight right now. The Rivers aren't pulling anything. They're doing non-jobs that have been dreamed up specifically to justify their existence. Two are doing roles in the Falklands and Caribbean that have been all along. Gibraltar is new, but I would a...

This isn't the topic to discuss the Type 31. Posts deleted. Fair enough, though it was in the context of T26 numbers, and a desire from some to fill in any gap to sell to Norway with cheap T31s. I guess I will have to wait once more for someone to explain what is the priority requirement for GP fri...

There was loads of complete off-topic stuff about gas prices (I think - only skimmed them long enough to think WTF has this got to do with T32) I only noticed when I came back to try and quote a summary of T26 programme development woes that I put hear to find it and it wasn't here. Just asking bec...

The £11bn for all 13 was let slip by an Admiral back in 2014. The only relevant thing now is what an additional batch would cost. Adjusted for inflation the cost of the last batch of 5 is now £920m. Just with average inflation that cost will rise by £30m-£40m per annum. They are a £1bn Frigate now ...

History 101 So you can't tell me how so? The RN clearly wanted all 13, and there were rumours of a £11bn price tag, the Treasury said no. Yes but it was the navy who messed up the procurement as such that the price rose to that, out of the RN's budget, so if they did ask the treasury for more then ...

I fear you are right, because this comments on this thread seems to represent the wallcharts first requirements & strategy last approach that got us in this shit in the first place. I don’t understand why are not jumping for joy at the news? Surely an extra 5x T26 in the North Atlantic is what ...

Why don’t we get Babcock to build the Norwegian T26s under license from BAE? That way we definitely will not be wasting more money on more T31s or T32s. Never going to happen, What is more likely, much to your annoyance, is that T31 B2 goes ahead, keeps Babcock busy and could alleviate the shortfal...

SW1 wrote: ↑15 Apr 2024, 18:21 The fleet will be looking more and more like the Australian one post review

If that happens then we really are screwed.

Why don’t we get Babcock to build the Norwegian T26s under license from BAE? That way we definitely will not be wasting more money on more T31s or T32s.

History 101 So you can't tell me how so? The RN clearly wanted all 13, and there were rumours of a £11bn price tag, the Treasury said no. Yes but it was the navy who messed up the procurement as such that the price rose to that, out of the RN's budget, so if they did ask the treasury for more then ...

Ok, there'll be a ASW deficit, but don't let perfection be the enemy of good enough. And the RN eventually ends up with the 25 escorts it aspires to. This sums up my issue - why the push of numbers by accepting assets that can’t do the job properly, where no-one can explain the requirement and cann...

History 101 So you can't tell me how so? The RN clearly wanted all 13, and there were rumours of a £11bn price tag, the Treasury said no. Yes but it was the navy who messed up the procurement as such that the price rose to that, out of the RN's budget, so if they did ask the treasury for more then ...

new guy wrote: ↑15 Apr 2024, 15:13

Ron5 wrote: ↑15 Apr 2024, 14:35
History 101

So you can't tell me how so?

The RN clearly wanted all 13, and there were rumours of a £11bn price tag, the Treasury said no.

Difficult one, but based on 8 you are either cutting TAPS or two ASW escorts for the CSG. Is it not a small price to pay to have another 5x T26 in the North Atlantic? It’s only a one year delay on one hull before the drumbeat can adjust. Squeezing another CSG deployment out of one T23ASW would prob...

Doesn't it kind of depend on the days at sea for a new T26 vs the days at sea for the clapped out T23s theyre replacing. I mean 1 ship to NO might actually not be much of reduction in capability, even if narrowly measured (RN only) We may be able to scrap through with 7 keeping 3 deployed but it’s ...

Does it really matter? Those two type 26s will still be operating, in the same area, hunting the same enemy. The RNs CAPEX gets pushed to the right and the UK wins its largest naval export orderin decades. Also - do the Norwegians need a barely used tanker by any chance? Difficult one, but based on...

But no one can explain what priorities you are trying to address? So you can't define the priorities, but you want to build extremely expensive, dedicated platforms to handle them? Is that what you are saying? Eh? I have absolutely defined why we need 10 ASW and 10 AAW escorts - don’t try and turn ...

It’s a world away from what people get excited about for a cheap T31 pointless class. I think it's more a case that many of us realised the potential and believed that there was more to be got from the platform. If the current plans come to fruition, then the T31 will be an extremely potent surface...

tomuk wrote: ↑15 Apr 2024, 04:54 Which escorts are currently being side tracked to cover OPV/HADR?

Isn’t that exactly what people are so excited about? T31s replacing B2 Rivers?

An escort doesn't have to be a subhunter. T23 GP isn't. An GP escort like T31 can have kit fitted to make a contribution to the ASW hunt (as opposed to self protection) as others earlier have said but it's not a specialist. An escort does not have to be a sub hunted correct, but if the danger is su...