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by Repulse
22 Sep 2019, 10:04
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion
Replies: 10472
Views: 549363
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion

Why not just build more helicopters? I’m not arguing against this, but what gives when you move funding in this direction? The future will be more about having adaptable platforms with off board systems doing a lot of the heavy lifting, but the overall capabilities still need to be balanced. The re...
by Repulse
22 Sep 2019, 09:10
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion
Replies: 10472
Views: 549363
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion

It goes without saying that any new OPV's should have a hanger included from the start. Given the decision on the T31, the limited number of helicopter assets and no sign of significant increase in funding, this is a nice-to-have. C3s/OPVs will operate primarily in range of land bases, and when the...
by Repulse
21 Sep 2019, 15:41
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion
Replies: 10472
Views: 549363
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion

Seeing that the current MCMs will be there till late 2020s, then 8 (or 9) B1/B2 Rivers is a good combination - though this assumes the B1s will he kept for another 10 years which for me is a must. Given the circumstances though I now think the RN should take more of an active patrol, deterrence &...
by Repulse
21 Sep 2019, 13:19
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion
Replies: 10472
Views: 549363
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion

dmereifield wrote:Is there anything official about T31 increasing from 5 to 8 or 3 more River B2's? Or is this all speculative?


Only people speculating on the possible rather than anything certain as far as I’m aware.
by Repulse
21 Sep 2019, 13:17
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion
Replies: 10472
Views: 549363
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion

Roders96 wrote:Do you think something based off the Absalons could fill the gap in a similar way to A140?


My view is that they are too big and overlap with larger amphibious / support ships (a ok compromise for small navies) and too manpower intensive (100+).
by Repulse
21 Sep 2019, 11:48
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion
Replies: 10472
Views: 549363
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion

Jake1992 wrote:Are the RB2s really the best vessel for the C3 ?


Probably not no, I still like the Venator 80 design. However, it’s what we have and with the 4 B1s (yes, I want to keep HMS Clyde), with some modification they could do a decent job till the late 2020s when a new design can be built.
by Repulse
21 Sep 2019, 11:43
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: River Class (OPV) (RN)
Replies: 2954
Views: 182241
Location: United Kingdom

Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Controversial question perhaps, but how important is the B2 crane and container carrying capability? I understand that carrying containers can allow “modules” to be added to add certain capabilities depending on the role/mission, but surely that would be done in a dock / harbour side that has either...
by Repulse
21 Sep 2019, 10:56
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion
Replies: 10472
Views: 549363
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion

10 C1, 8 C2 and 12 C3 x 0.8? If you get fractions, round C2 up and (in money terms) take as much away from C3 Something like: - 6 T45 - 8 C1 (T26) - 7 C2 (T31) - 9 C3 (B2+ Rivers) Feels fairly balanced if that is what the RN is going for, but would assume that the bulk of MCM/Survey capability woul...
by Repulse
21 Sep 2019, 10:17
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: River Class (OPV) (RN)
Replies: 2954
Views: 182241
Location: United Kingdom

Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Could this free up 2 T-26's from TAPS Can’t remember who said this, but if CASD is our ultimate defence fallback against peer one foes, should we really be reducing the standard of our supporting forces to keep it defended? Should we try and end up with something like three RB3 built to ASW corvett...
by Repulse
21 Sep 2019, 08:36
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion
Replies: 10472
Views: 549363
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion

Is it me, or are we now back in the thinking prior to the 2010 SDSR. By this I’m referring to the C1, C2 and C3 concept. * C1 - Force Anti-Submarine Warfare Combatant (T26) * C2 - Stabilisation Combatant (T31) * C3 - Global Corvette (B2 River) https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/europe/ima...
by Repulse
21 Sep 2019, 08:24
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: River Class (OPV) (RN)
Replies: 2954
Views: 182241
Location: United Kingdom

Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Will move it over to the Current & Future Escorts thread but it does feel that we are back in C1,C2,C3 territory with the B2 being pitched for the C3.
by Repulse
19 Sep 2019, 22:33
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion
Replies: 10472
Views: 549363
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion

GiGS/Med [1], Horn of Africa [1], Singapore [1] Fairly sensible overall, but - why do we need a Gib "warship"? - and [add double quotation marks] what is such a vessel supposed to achieve in the areas close to Singapore ... so two, stricken off. Means that we can rotate between B1s, to ke...
by Repulse
19 Sep 2019, 22:01
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion
Replies: 10472
Views: 549363
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion

Now that the RN has settled on the T31e and also needs the T45/T26 to cover TAPS/CEPP the question remains how will the RN deploy the 5 T31 + 8 B1s/B2s to cover the other standing commitments / future aspirations (that have been discussed by HMG). My view is the probably something like the following...
by Repulse
19 Sep 2019, 21:55
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: River Class (OPV) (RN)
Replies: 2954
Views: 182241
Location: United Kingdom

Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Replacement with three purpose-designed patrol frigates (c. 2500t range and a target cost of c. £175m) would be a sensible move and would provide the patrol fleet with a greater capability in higher-threat areas. I would agree with you had the T31 not gone ahead and more T26s purchased (my preferen...
by Repulse
18 Sep 2019, 20:21
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: River Class (OPV) (RN)
Replies: 2954
Views: 182241
Location: United Kingdom

Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Poiuytrewq , thanks for the info, but I would say that a delay in the delivery of the T31 by a year or two would not be significant assuming the availability of other platforms was able to remain high. As such I do not see this in itself a reason to up-gun the B2s. What I would say is that having j...
by Repulse
18 Sep 2019, 13:49
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: River Class (OPV) (RN)
Replies: 2954
Views: 182241
Location: United Kingdom

Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Caribbean , personally not convinced on the short term need for the 40mm, and would keep to a 57mm and 30mm combo to minimise overall impact to supply and support requirements. Given we are a couple of years from their commissioning, I agree that Spey and Tamar should be the EoS platforms and add f...
by Repulse
17 Sep 2019, 20:24
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: River Class (OPV) (RN)
Replies: 2954
Views: 182241
Location: United Kingdom

Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

shark bait , an extended River with hangar would have been lovely, and something that I think should still be on the wish list; but we are where we are and looking to maximise the value of the B2s with a very modest budget is the right thing to do. I know it’s far from ideal, but given that there w...
by Repulse
17 Sep 2019, 18:38
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Royal Navy Gunnery Discussion
Replies: 110
Views: 5671
Location: United Kingdom

Re: 76mm Oto Melara

Who can change the name of the thread?
by Repulse
17 Sep 2019, 13:50
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: River Class (OPV) (RN)
Replies: 2954
Views: 182241
Location: United Kingdom

Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

That's not an advantage, that's a list of places. Ok, what’s the advantage of a 57mm gun on a B2 River? For #5, it can more safely operate close to Yemeni and Somali coastlines where the threat of attack from fast craft and UAVs is increasing. Alternatively buy more T31s with 57mms to do the same, ...
by Repulse
16 Sep 2019, 22:00
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: River Class (OPV) (RN)
Replies: 2954
Views: 182241
Location: United Kingdom

Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

I struggle to see the advantage here. What would a future up-gunned OPV do that it can't do today? As per one of my Escort Thread posts, the answer starts with the question how the 5 B2s and 5 T31s be deployed to cover the FRE, NATO, Forward Based and Future Commando LSG requirements. Personally I ...
by Repulse
15 Sep 2019, 18:02
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Future Littoral Strike Ships
Replies: 642
Views: 55615
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Future Littoral Strike Ships

Infact I don’t think a uk lpd has been used in anger since the Falklands. Good point, but a little unfair as the Albion’s were commissioned just after Telic, which is the main amphibious op since Falklands. Also, they have been used for various Civilian Evacuations in the Med and West Africa which ...
by Repulse
15 Sep 2019, 11:56
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]
Replies: 6150
Views: 349530
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

Simon82, have added my thoughts on the need to rationalise the number of gun variants to the 76mm thread as it’s wider than just this topic. Perhaps a Mod can change the title if marktigger agrees.
by Repulse
15 Sep 2019, 11:52
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Royal Navy Gunnery Discussion
Replies: 110
Views: 5671
Location: United Kingdom

Re: 76mm Oto Melara

Not sure where to put this, as it’s not necessarily platform related, but relevant to RN discussions. If the T31e comes with 57mm and 40mm guns that would mean we would have 8 different types of gun mounts / calibres in wide use in the RN/RFA. 1) 20mm “old” Mount (Older RFAs) 2) 20mm “new Mount (Ech...
by Repulse
15 Sep 2019, 10:33
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Future Littoral Strike Ships
Replies: 642
Views: 55615
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Future Littoral Strike Ships

If the flag ship hq capability are removed from the Albion’s and transferred to the carriers is there that much reason for retaining them, without that role are they that much different to a bay. The main reasons would be they currently provide 75% of the RN well-dock capability, and ship to shore ...
by Repulse
15 Sep 2019, 10:25
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Future Littoral Strike Ships
Replies: 642
Views: 55615
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Future Littoral Strike Ships

Lord Jim , I see your point on Solid Stores and the complexity it would add to the “FLSS” requirement. Also, the original JSBL concept was aimed at Brigade Level ops where now that would now be seen to be a serious one off commitment, with a combination of large parts of the fleet plus STUFT. Ultim...

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