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by Repulse
18 Jul 2019, 22:03
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion
Replies: 9807
Views: 420405
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion

Jake1992, my point on the additional costs (a T26) relates to the hidden support, maintenance and training costs over the lifetime of a new class. It would be better to buy a batch 2 T26 with an extended mission bay.
by Repulse
18 Jul 2019, 21:43
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion
Replies: 9807
Views: 420405
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion

The T26 could do some of this with its mission bay but it’ll be limited to what sized unmanned vehicles it can operate compared to a cross over / Absalon style vessel, if suspect it’d also be busy doing its primary role of ASW protection for the group which you wouldn’t want to take it away from. I...
by Repulse
17 Jul 2019, 22:39
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion
Replies: 9807
Views: 420405
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion

Jake1992 wrote:Frigate sized vessels like a Absalon / cross over set up for high threat areas


Agree with much of what you say, but surely the above should be primarily Task Group assets like the T26, LPDs and supporting RFAs.
by Repulse
17 Jul 2019, 21:00
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion
Replies: 9807
Views: 420405
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion

We need to keep sight on the requirements and what the RN is scaling up for. It’s basically FRE, EEZ constabulary duties, TAPS plus permanent forward presence plus the ability to operate a globally deployable Carrier centric task group 100% of the time (through two task groups in rotation). The T31e...
by Repulse
15 Jul 2019, 22:02
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion
Replies: 9807
Views: 420405
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion

seaspear wrote:Not wanting to go into fantasy


Peh, that’s not fantasy - I’m going for modern Sunderland flying boats with mission bays 8-)
by Repulse
15 Jul 2019, 21:04
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion
Replies: 9807
Views: 420405
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion

That’s what we’ve spent billions buying type 45 and type 26 for. Agreed, and we need another billion or two to buy some more. The only “relatively” cheap things that can be added to real ASW capabilities are MPAs, Merlins, dip sonar for Wildcats and in the near future ASW drones. Building a new “ch...
by Repulse
15 Jul 2019, 17:07
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion
Replies: 9807
Views: 420405
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion

This is a smaller, less powerful, and less robust hull than its predecessor designed 40 years earlier. The Royal Navy is on a capability climb down, meanwhile potential adversaries are are becoming more complex. Here we have a platform that is far less capable than the T23 first conceived in the la...
by Repulse
15 Jul 2019, 16:33
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion
Replies: 9807
Views: 420405
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion

In that case, how about 5 US Cyclone class patrol craft as T31, and give nearly 1B GBP back to T26? Note Cyclone class is of VT design.. (although already very old...) I like the Cyclone class and could see how something similar would be a good ship/boat to operate from Gib/Med, but it’s not what w...
by Repulse
14 Jul 2019, 09:14
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion
Replies: 9807
Views: 420405
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion

Does your "B3 River (Avenger)" need high damage control or OPV standard is OK? As I understand it, the B2 damage control is towards a gold standard for OPVs. My view is that it doesn’t need a “Frigate” level of damage control, it is not intended to purposely be put in harms way, so the pr...
by Repulse
14 Jul 2019, 08:35
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion
Replies: 9807
Views: 420405
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion

I think we are in danger of putting the solution ahead of understanding the requirement. The requirement relating to what the UK needs in terms of surface warships I see are: 1) UK EEZ Defence: FRE, TAPS, Fisheries & MCM 2) CASD support: TAPS 3) BOT Defence: Deterrence and surveillance 4) Polici...
by Repulse
13 Jul 2019, 21:53
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion
Replies: 9807
Views: 420405
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion

Poiuytrewq , even without moving the CAMM launcher it could still operate a couple of 12m boats/UUVs - looking at the image it could operate 4 ribs. I’d say a 102m “Avenger” would be approx 2,800t. Without the TOBA, a 2,000t B2 River would each have cost @ £100mn per unit or £50k per tonne. Built t...
by Repulse
13 Jul 2019, 14:06
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion
Replies: 9807
Views: 420405
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion

Poiuytrewq , The Avenger had a CAMM VLS amidships (12 cells I believe), Artisan and 2 x 30mms - change the 114mm gun with something smaller and you are pretty much at what you describe for the T31 above. Would like more of a mission bay at he rear and this is my vision of a B3 River Sloop. https://...
by Repulse
13 Jul 2019, 12:04
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]
Replies: 3838
Views: 214695
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Going to a sole type 26 surface combatant fleet and forgetting about type 31 would also help even if that means a reduction in overall traditional escort numbers Agree with your main point, the T31 in its current form is a highway to nowhere, with little chance of export. I would though couple this...
by Repulse
12 Jul 2019, 22:04
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion
Replies: 9807
Views: 420405
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion

serge750 wrote:4 x avenger and 12 x T26 ?


:thumbup: plus another 5 Avengers as part of the MCM replacement.
by Repulse
12 Jul 2019, 18:39
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]
Replies: 3838
Views: 214695
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Pseudo, budget wise you are probably right, but I suspect they will try for the T26 first with scaled down weapons and towards the end of the build cycle where efficiency should be highest and per unit cost lowest.
by Repulse
12 Jul 2019, 11:44
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]
Replies: 3838
Views: 214695
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

New Zealand is potentially interested in two to three T26s after 2030 according to BAE speculation reported in the FT. I think they’ll struggle budget wise, but (and I know people disagree) this is where a UK subsidised order of ships built in the UK could work, especially if one of the three is for...
by Repulse
11 Jul 2019, 13:05
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: River Class (OPV) (RN)
Replies: 2769
Views: 142363
Location: United Kingdom

Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

But, River B2 will not be required to carry out ALL of the tasks MHC shall do. True, but given the MHC programme is unlikely to be focused on delivering ships, the reuse of existing platforms such as the B2 Rivers will be key. Also, looking more broadly such as UUV ASW drones - the potential roles ...
by Repulse
11 Jul 2019, 07:10
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: River Class (OPV) (RN)
Replies: 2769
Views: 142363
Location: United Kingdom

Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

donald_of_tokyo, an enclosure would help enormously with support, maintain and avoid weather/sea damage of larger off-board systems.
by Repulse
10 Jul 2019, 19:59
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: River Class (OPV) (RN)
Replies: 2769
Views: 142363
Location: United Kingdom

Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Tempest414, would tend to agree, but having the capability to operate a Wildcat and having one permanently deployed is different ends of the scale.

The original B3 (Avenger) concept plus a T26 style mission bay is what the T31 should be.
by Repulse
09 Jul 2019, 19:08
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: River Class (OPV) (RN)
Replies: 2769
Views: 142363
Location: United Kingdom

Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

If only they had a hangar / mission bay...
by Repulse
08 Jul 2019, 21:14
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: River Class (OPV) (RN)
Replies: 2769
Views: 142363
Location: United Kingdom

Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Great pic of HMS Medway and the B2s in general, shows how much space is available to enhance its off board and self-defence capabilities.
by Repulse
08 Jul 2019, 13:53
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Mine countermeasures and Hydrographic capability (MHC) (MHPC)
Replies: 594
Views: 36674
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Mine countermeasures and Hydrographic capability (MHC) (MHPC)

shark bait wrote:The RN needs a bunch of simple commercially delivered platforms for mine clearance and survey tasks.


Why the RN, rather than Serco operated vessels for UK waters with RN MCM specialists onboard? If war ever happened they would be mobilised anyway.
by Repulse
07 Jul 2019, 21:28
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion
Replies: 10027
Views: 673424
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

I thought the third was going to be installed next year just before the first deployment - will try to find the link, but remember it being discussed on this thread a while ago.
by Repulse
07 Jul 2019, 15:47
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Mine countermeasures and Hydrographic capability (MHC) (MHPC)
Replies: 594
Views: 36674
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Mine countermeasures and Hydrographic capability (MHC) (MHPC)

donald_of_tokyo , my vision would be to replace the current MCM vessels in three ways: - 5 more Secro SD Victorias for UK waters - 5 more T31s (assuming the design has a sizeable mission bay) for globally independent operations such as the gulf - 1 more Bay for Task Group duties This as you say wou...
by Repulse
07 Jul 2019, 11:01
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]
Replies: 5942
Views: 278471
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

RichardIC , “Superficial “ - “appearing to be true or real only until examined more closely.”? I’ll ignore your childish insults and assume you are having a bad day. I am the biggest advocate for increasing the T26 order, which yes will be built in Scotland. Yes I would like the T26 modularised so ...

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