UK Defence Forum

Lord Jim wrote:Ok lets buy two more from scratch.

Those were 1988 prices

Maybe building two replicas to fill the LSS requirement and also cover the third FSS? Something like this? image.jpg This concept is only 140m so finding a donor hull around 190m like the Points would allow for the enlargement of the Flightdeck to enable two Chinook landing spots. image.jpg Lots of...

Lord Jim wrote:How much did HMS Argus finally cost after purchase and conversion

Around £18m to buy and £45m to convert.

I did not mean making the hangar/ deck smaller, but what would be routinely carried. A box-std Merlin used to cost £20m, the ASW version 2 - 2.5 times that - and the marinised Merlins are not box-std either. Even a Wildcat costs £27m... so just 1+1 helos carried 'routinely' will exceed the purchase...

The biggest vehicle this thing is going to probably carry are variants of the JLTV and I doubt we are going to see "Field Guns" deployed form them either. I suspect you could be right when the LSS is forming part of an LSG but what if the LSS vessels have joined the Amphibious Task Group?...

Here is a concept... I am trying to follow what you are proposing. Do you mean, - Delete the deck hangers? - Add a flight deck above the existing Upper deck? - Add a single lift between the Flightdeck and the Upper deck? - Add compartments and mission spaces to the full length of the Upper Deck? - ...

Build stds is one thing, but the underlying design of a flow-thru ship is challenging: a big box, within which the connectivity (both length wise and vertically, between decks) has been maximised, means that even modest damage would turn that "flow" to be water. It's a concern, such vesse...

donald_of_tokyo wrote:What a big big flight deck! Very impressive.

The 21m beam makes a BIG difference.

This is starting get a bit silly now, especially from a fellow NATO member.

IMO it sounds very much like these vessels will be mobile SF bases with the added ability to conduct RM raids, the question is what is required for this ? Maybe if everyone pitched in we could reach a consensus :D......unlikley I know. That is what should define the ship it’s self. Exactly I don’t ...

If you set out to operate 6 merlins then you need refuelling points, space for spares, crew potientially weapons storage to support a said deployment size. Then how big a space to operate 6 can they all operate together so you get to how many flight deck spots is there ect. It all starts to drives ...

Pongoglo wrote:....it could be argued that with the advent of the Strike Brigade is more mission critical than even before.

Exactly, dropping down to two Points seems very unlikely. With the emphasis on forward deployment it's difficult to see how the LSS vessels could be routinely used for sealift duties.

albedo wrote:....it might only be 5-10mm thick. It certainly looks relatively thin.

That figure is unlikely to be in the public domain but your estimated thickness should be pretty much spot on. I would estimate around 8mm to 10mm but it will vary across the hull.

Tempest414 wrote:My guess is HMT know this and will back fill the hole as needed as seen this year

Yup, keep throwing a £Bn at it every year and it will soon go away....

If you had 2 LSS each able to embark 6 merlin you have more helicopter space than helicopters that CHF can deploy. You could be right but in the case of converting the Bay's its simply a case of the practicalities involved. This image clearly shows the issues that need to be resolved. image.jpg The...

As for T45 ASW, would adding the Mk41's along with ASROC not make more sense?

Repulse wrote:Interestingly, this does seem a return to the late 1970s for the RN when similar ships were being discussed and then ditched when money was found for HMS Ocean

Could we be heading back to the future?

I am starting to see the FLSS as a waste of time and money that will lead to a cut in the Bays or the Albion's I am still trying to work out how the LSG concept fits in with the wider strategy. Still a lot of unanswered questions. One of the biggest is, why build 2 new LSS vessels and still leave a...

Knud E.Hansen have some really interesting designs, especially for Ro-Ro vessels. The Points could almost be described as last generation now. Some of the most up to date designs are truly impressive. This Grimaldi design is probably too big for the LSS but if shortened to 200m, something like this...

I think it’d be good to build the hangers with the idea of 2 chinooks blades open and the down the line look at folding blades as I bet you could possibly fit 3 chinooks folded in a sand that can handle 2 chinooks open blades. I don't disagree with your 2 Chinook or 6 Merlin spec. It seems pretty o...

Would it not just be cheaper and more efficient in the long run to just bite the bullet and pay for the development of automatic folding rotors on the Chinooks. Got to be cheaper than continually building bigger and bigger ships to accommodate the CH-47's. It worked well enough with the CH-46's. htt...

Latest picture of HMS Glasgow in build at BAES Govan. Excellent find there aren't many pictures about of the T26. I just wish the progress was a bit quicker. Try and catch Michael Portillo on the BBC iplayer when he was doing his train journeys programme in Glasgow. It aired last week. Lots on the ...

...so converting a couple of Points... Do you mean the existing Points that are in the water now or more modern commercially sourced donor hulls similar to a Point design? If we just convert "a couple of Points" as many suggest they will be around 20 years old by the time they commission....

Good overview but the T45 is still one of the best, if not THE best AAW Destroyers in the world.

....that could mean design costs, IP purchase, infrastructure expenditure, project office/ management costs etc. etc. At £250m it's not an insignificant amount of money. IP purchase Has Babcock said they need another £250m to make it work? Are we effectively just setting the budget at a level to ge...