UK Defence Forum

I don’t think the risk is with the RN at all. The risk is that RN won't actually end up with 8 Type 26's. Clearly the decision has been taken that due the political toxicity of curtailing the T26 build, on the balance of probability, the T26 programme will trundle along as planned. I think they kno...

Why not just build more helicopters? I’m not arguing against this, but what gives when you move funding in this direction? The future will be more about having adaptable platforms with off board systems doing a lot of the heavy lifting, but the overall capabilities still need to be balanced. I prob...

Operative word: currently Yep, who's going to be right, the optimist or the pessimist? Time will tell. I don't know what the maximum growth margin on A140 is but it could be in the region of 60 cells. Even if the existing 32 Mk41 cells in the IH Stanflex design were quad-packed with CAMM that's 128...

Nothing new here but an update nonetheless.

https://researchbriefings.files.parliam ... P-8665.pdf

....if we started in 2021 to build 3 more OPV's and added 3 more T-31's to the order then by 2031 we could have a fleet of 6 AAW destroyers 8 ASW Frigates 8 GP Frigates 8 OPV's Agree 100%. This now looks like the best that can be realistically hoped for. The important thing now is for RN to find a ...

we would be in a great place with 16 C1's , 8 C2's and 8 C3's The problem is that it will be 2040 before such a force structure is possible with current planning. Lots of SDSR's between now and then. A Venari 95 or modern black swan would be better in my opinion. Too slow, they need to achieve at l...

If you changed the name of your type 31 gp to type 31 asw that would be what you’ve spec’d add fixed propellers and codlad which the builder say is possible for effect. The name is unimportant but IMO the spec of a 21st century GP Frigate needs to include a TAS/VDS or a credible off board system th...

Adapted from the excellent UKLandPower article posted above. This might be currently unaffordable but maybe it's just a question of reorganising priorities. Type 45 AAW Destroyer 57mm with magazine in A mount replacing 4.5 inch gun Port and starboard Phalanx Port and starboard DS30 remote mounts wit...

Tempest414 wrote: 2 more type 31's would be a better option

The problem is they won't commission for the best part of a decade.

If RN really want more vessels in a hurry they will need to be Rivers or Leanders built at Cammell Laird.

I do not think NGFS is a high priority in T31 frigate. If NGFS was required in the near future, which RN vessels would provide it? Most likely the T23 GP's. The T23 GP's were supposed to be being replaced by T26 GP's with Mk45 guns, and would have most likely provided the bulk of any NGFS to allow ...

Why are you only giving the B1's a 20 year life surly they should be good for 30 years which takes them up to 2033 I think 25 years is realistic, pushing it out to 30 years would be cost prohibitive and in all likelihood, avialibility would reduce. Probably 2028 would be the latest- that would be 2...

PhillyJ wrote:Well the texts have dried up so assume you are not allowed to use your phone and man a GPMG

Not recommended unless you want send texts at a rate of 650 per minute

What I would say is that having just 5 T31s and 5 B2s to cover FRE plus all forward escort commitments (outside of CEPP) is reason enough as by giving all or some B2s the additional kit we’ve been mentioning gives the RN more options and flexibility on how to meet the needs. But for how long? What ...

Relevant to recent discussions.

https://www.portsmouth.co.uk/news/defen ... -1-9076417

This is why I said any uparming needs to look at what role they’d be asked to do, as uparming for uparmings sake is just a waste. It’s also why I mentioned brexit will determine the numbers needed for UK EEZ Agreed, a lot depends on whether the UK enters a lengthy transition period to exit the EU o...

shark bait wrote:If Babcock do build a 'Frigate Factory'....

I was under the impression that the extra £250m in the T31 programme was partly to improve the infrastructure of the chosen yards to maximise efficiency of build.

If so, where is the other £200m going?

In my opinion all this talk about up-arming the OPV's is a classic case of mission creep. Patrolling around the Falklands, Gibraltar and the Caribbean does not require anything more than a 30mm. If that changes then it's the job for a Frigate or Corvette anyway. The RB2's should concentrate on patro...

CL/Babcock It will be interesting to see if they contract out to CL. The program director said the bid they submitted was for 100% of the build at Rosyth, and once the contract was signed they would evaluate the business case for out sourcing some of the work. I think this means is they will get a ...

But, when talking about adding something to T31, it means "new money". So, everything must be considered fleet wide. For ASW, T31 is NOT the only asset deserving "additional kits". How about more P-8 or Merlin? How about ASW-USV? For land attack, the same. Why not 127mm gun on T...

No argument with the effectiveness of the 57mm but adding both the 57mm and 40mm seems like too much of an overlap to reach a price point IMO. If the T31's are to be the primary escorts for the proposed Littoral Strike Groups, the 57mm/40mm combination really isn't good enough. Does it make more se...

Let's get 11 sets, not only 5. No argument there :thumbup: why does she be alone when supporting EMF? And, if alone, two Wildcat will be better than one Merlin to carry.... Absolutly but it still doesn't change the fact that without a Wildcat the A140 would have no offensive weapons. As expected Ye...

....if type 31 came in with 76mm this would allow a upgrade later to Vulcano rounds which would allow NGFS out to 40km given the Mk-8 has a range of 27km the 31's would be in good shape Agreed but I question the need to introduce both the 40mm and 57mm. Much better to standardise all RN Frigates an...

SW1 wrote:How many boats and helicopters do you need to insert a team 16?

How many boats and helicopters do you need to extract your team of 16 if they get into a heavy contact and are pinned down on a hostile shoreline?

Firstly, I'm amazed an Arrowhead 140 can be brought in on the £250m budget with this specification. All involved with the T31 programme should be commended if they actually arrive on time and on budget. It's a lot of ship for the money but it's not all good news IMO. 2: A 57mm gun is great, much bet...

Interesting input into the debate: Lots of very useful clarification and very relevant to recent discussions. As stated by others this quote appears to provide the basic outline of what is being proposed. The LSG is expected to consist of two Littoral Strike Units, each comprising up to three amphi...