UK Defence Forum

The Rivers aren't saleable, their value is about a third of what the MOD paid, so it'll never happen.

Perhaps if a T23 was sold a couple could be upgraded to an "interim light frigate" standard, for use on ASW patrols in the North?

However, the design is based on Thyssen Krupp’s latest Meko A200 frigate presently in use by Algeria’s navy. How, some ask, can Atlas’s Type 31e vessel be exported by the British when it is the intellectual property of a German company? However, the design is based on OMT’s latest Iver Huitfeldt-cl...

Why only 2? Relatively simple craft should allow a much higher availability rate than 1:3, any reason why we couldn’t operate like the Survey ships? They would have to be equipped to self escort, since the proposal trades in 5 escorts for for 5 assault platforms. That makes the ship much more compl...

Poiuytrewq wrote:I am still trying to find an Amphibious vessel with a well dock and a role 3 medical facility. No luck so far...

Mistral class

What planning is that?

There is no Venari programme, the RN does not want or need new mine clearance platforms until 2028. If they are in the market for new vessels, why would the be overhauling the existing fleet? Selling off five brand new and real ships to buy four concept vessels to prop up a broke shipyard you fancy ...

donald_of_tokyo wrote:Now, the status if the five T23GPs are;

Thanks for taking the time to work this out, I had lost track. Your going to need some more colours, soon some will be running around with new engines. A couple will never get new engines, I guess they're going to be the first to go.

For example adapting the RSN Endurance LPD Class to meet the T31e current GP requirements looks possible to me and falls within the budget. Buying five of these coupled with C&C facilities going to the CVFs, would allow both Albions to be retired. A big flexible platform such as the above would...

There is no rational justification due to the current lack of progress in the MH(P)C program There is, a new platform is not due into service until 2028. If these are suppose to be simple commercial platforms there's no need to be rushing now. As far as Wave Ruler is concerned it would be another n...

Similarly, helicopter training could be a good "peace time tasks" for a Wave or Tide (or even Bay) stationed around British water. Out sourcing it to Serco (or alike) will save the money HOW? Yes, in such a way that banning a Wave tanker and cutting 50-80 RFA crews. Only if UK is NOT thin...

Poiuytrewq wrote:What would be more use conducting APT(S), an Albion with up to a Merlin and a Wildcat or a T31 with a Wildcat?

The Answer is a Bay Class.

and neither of those fit on the inside, so no real loss.

No, there will be no 'additional support' from Serco, and that should be by design.

Hand them a contract for 100 days training a year and be done with it, allowing the RFA focus on its core activities.

History shows RN should never be underestimated even if heavily outnumbered. This type of phrase pops up all the time, but does it actually mean anything in reality? I think it might be something us Brits say to comfort ourself, but it could be a dangerous attitude. History is good to have, but it ...

As much as we would like them to be, they are not a coastal navy any more. For the last decade they have been developing blue water skills, and since they're not breaking new ground they're learning very quickly. We have yet to see a combat example of this, but we do have a botched evacuation in Lib...

Just like the British, who also have a single (new) base, and the Brits haven't sent out a task group in over a decade. Building lots of ships is highly relevant and we shouldn't pretend otherwise. The Brits are a 20 ship navy, the Chinese have 200+ , in a war of attrition I know who I'd bet on. Us ...

Where are their prepared docks? Djibouti Djibouti is the first of many, the Chinese openly claim their expansion is economic only but we know that is not true. Right now china have more ships in the Indian Ocean than we do, have openly said they use SSN's in the region, and is building a Royal Navy...

We know the MOD dont mind a gap, and under their current plan Look the future afloat medical capability comes in 2035. Perhaps its no coincidence thats the same date as the LPD replacements.

Is a gap really the end of the world?

Further afield in a clash of interest requiring logistical trains to reach and operate away from home, RN would thrash them even in its weaker state right now. This is what we have traditionally told our self for comfort. In reality its a total lie, China has the same ability to operate in the Indi...

The MOD needs a cheap way to maintain at sea hours for pilots for all three services, a contracted PSV is an easy way to achieve that. I then suggest we build the future afloat medical capability into one of these; ⋅ The Waves replacement in 2030 ⋅ The Bays replacement in 2032 &s...

Lord Jim wrote: I know this is going to bring out comments regarding GW2, but that was the exception to the rule and will probably not be repeated

How can you justify that?

What people are forgetting is that RFA Argus as per her predecessor RFA Engadine has a Aviation Support role also. HAD an aviation support role, then deemed unnecessary and deleted with the conversion to a medical facility. An aviation training vessel supplied by Serco This sounds highly likely, bo...

Supersonic AShM appear to the becoming the norm, as always targeting is the big unknown to make a AShM an effective weapon system. We say this a lot, meanwhile we have Mach 3 missiles that can target much smaller objects moving much faster than a ship. Targeting might have been an issue in the 90's...

Poiuytrewq wrote:Care to elaborate?

OK, "I want to buy some C17 out of the NHS budget because they'l be used for Medevac, I'll even paint them white!"

That would be seriously dumb, likewise buying assault ships from the international development budget is really dumb.

Using the foreign development budget to build assault ships is dumb to the highest degree