UK Defence Forum

News, History, Discussions and Debates on UK Defence.

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by shark bait
27 May 2020, 14:39
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Mine countermeasures and Hydrographic capability (MHC) (MHPC)
Replies: 608
Views: 87794
Location: Pitcairn Island

Re: Mine countermeasures and Hydrographic capability (MHC) (MHPC)

In that scenario no dedicated platform is required, operate from another hull, or better yet from the shore. Use at Iraq as a case study; because of the mine threat, Marines were airlifted to the shore. Once the Marines achieved their objective, remote minesweepers were brought in to clear a channel...
by shark bait
27 May 2020, 14:19
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Mine countermeasures and Hydrographic capability (MHC) (MHPC)
Replies: 608
Views: 87794
Location: Pitcairn Island

Re: Mine countermeasures and Hydrographic capability (MHC) (MHPC)

That's your fabrication. There is no requirement to put a mine hunter with the carrier group, or whatever that last bit means.

The only thing that's changing is the mine clearance hull will sit outside the red zone, nothing else.
by shark bait
27 May 2020, 12:26
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Future Solid Support Ship
Replies: 1159
Views: 159543
Location: Pitcairn Island

Re: Future Solid Support Ship

Simply put NO FSS in the UK lead to jobs lost now and no capacity down the line to build amphibious replacemts I don't agree with any of that. No jobs will be lost, because the jobs don't exist in the first place. There seems to be a bit of a fetish for H&W but they're just a small repair and f...
by shark bait
27 May 2020, 12:06
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Mine countermeasures and Hydrographic capability (MHC) (MHPC)
Replies: 608
Views: 87794
Location: Pitcairn Island

Re: Mine countermeasures and Hydrographic capability (MHC) (MHPC)

Though I should hop over to this thread. I think the idea of the multi mission sloop came about from the MHCP concept Formally called C3, then MHCP, and again renamed as MHC after the OPV Batch 2 contract. If you look at this graphic, the MOD put the future IOC at 2030, so 25 years between MHCP and ...
by shark bait
27 May 2020, 11:47
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion
Replies: 11679
Views: 1076313
Location: Pitcairn Island

Re: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion

A couple of images I shared on twitter

Frigates compared;
Image

Escorts compared;
Image
by shark bait
27 May 2020, 11:06
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Future Solid Support Ship
Replies: 1159
Views: 159543
Location: Pitcairn Island

Re: Future Solid Support Ship

The FSS not being built in the UK would have a 3 fold effect in capacity, jobs and political damage All three of those are tenuous ⋅  No additional capacity is required ⋅  Fabricating a couple of ships will not create long term employment. They'll contract in some cheap European...
by shark bait
27 May 2020, 10:53
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Future Solid Support Ship
Replies: 1159
Views: 159543
Location: Pitcairn Island

Re: Future Solid Support Ship

Jensy wrote:Appreciate they're highly focused on building subs now but there's also Barrow to consider, further spreading skills around the country.


Yep, I nearly included them, but thought people would shout at me for calling them a shipbuilder :lol:
by shark bait
26 May 2020, 21:41
Forum: Royal Air Force
Topic: Raytheon Sentinel R1 (RAF)
Replies: 159
Views: 42466
Location: Pitcairn Island

Re: Raytheon Sentinel R1 (RAF)

Mind the gap.

One of the RAF's most valuable capabilities scrapped without replacement.
by shark bait
26 May 2020, 21:31
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Future Solid Support Ship
Replies: 1159
Views: 159543
Location: Pitcairn Island

Re: Future Solid Support Ship

No additional capacity needed. It will be a struggle to keep the three British producer's busy, so there's no requirement for a fourth.
by shark bait
26 May 2020, 21:16
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Future Solid Support Ship
Replies: 1159
Views: 159543
Location: Pitcairn Island

Re: Future Solid Support Ship

If I were the customer I would prefer it built in Spain to avoid a quality nightmare.

Furthermore, I'm not sure what the benefit of a new fabricator is just for two ships.
by shark bait
24 May 2020, 21:09
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion
Replies: 11679
Views: 1076313
Location: Pitcairn Island

Re: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion

Scrap all that. All that matters is the carrier groups.

(edit: on the surface)
by shark bait
22 May 2020, 21:24
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: River Class (OPV) (RN)
Replies: 3309
Views: 371753
Location: Pitcairn Island

Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

In Germany the coastguard is "a civilian law enforcement organisation whose primary missions are border protection, maritime environmental protection, shipping safety, fishery protection and customs enforcement". That's why I specifically mentioned the Germans, there's no need for a milita...
by shark bait
22 May 2020, 20:30
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: River Class (OPV) (RN)
Replies: 3309
Views: 371753
Location: Pitcairn Island

Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

There's enough vessels for a coastguard. The Navy and border force both have 9 patrol boats, plus the other agencies contributing to British maritime security. Yes it's currently the UK is the role of the Navy, but in Germany and America domestic maritime security of the job the coastguard. This ena...
by shark bait
22 May 2020, 19:53
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: River Class (OPV) (RN)
Replies: 3309
Views: 371753
Location: Pitcairn Island

Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Use a coastguard vessel.

This is the whole point, the RN do not have to do all that, they can streamline their operations considerably and focus on the unique value streams.
by shark bait
22 May 2020, 19:17
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: River Class (OPV) (RN)
Replies: 3309
Views: 371753
Location: Pitcairn Island

Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

They wouldn't loose any personnel, and they can get those laid up ships back to sea, plus other efficiency benefits thanks to a streamlined structure.
by shark bait
22 May 2020, 18:51
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: River Class (OPV) (RN)
Replies: 3309
Views: 371753
Location: Pitcairn Island

Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Maybe, and they get a streamlined organisation. Struggling organisations need to focus on what matters most, not counting fish.
by shark bait
22 May 2020, 18:35
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: River Class (OPV) (RN)
Replies: 3309
Views: 371753
Location: Pitcairn Island

Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Why spend more money creating yet another department Because the Navy is already in a shit state, and it does not need more problems caused by a new Brexit border. They should outsource all the law enforcement stuff to someone else. This like the RAF outsourcing search and rescue, it's not a core a...
by shark bait
22 May 2020, 09:00
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion
Replies: 11679
Views: 1076313
Location: Pitcairn Island

Re: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion

A bit of guestimating from Babcocks images puts the doors at about 10m wide on the T31, vs about 14m wide on the T26.

For comparison ARCIMS is 11m long.
by shark bait
20 May 2020, 13:44
Forum: Royal Air Force
Topic: Boeing E-7 Wedgetail (RAF)
Replies: 157
Views: 42836
Location: Pitcairn Island

Re: Boeing E-7 Wedgetail (RAF)

A step in the right direction, a bit better than the P8 deal for British industry.
by shark bait
20 May 2020, 13:37
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion
Replies: 11679
Views: 1076313
Location: Pitcairn Island

Re: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion

⋅ I don't think mine clearance has ever been done in the middle of a battle. ⋅ Mine Hunter's have only ever has basic self defence weapons fitted. The change to drones does not change either of those points, so don't fix a problem that doesn't exist. Furthermore the point defenc...
by shark bait
20 May 2020, 11:32
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion
Replies: 11679
Views: 1076313
Location: Pitcairn Island

Re: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion

57mm and a SeaRam These are real fringe use cases. There is no demand for well armed mine hunters today, and that's not going to change with the switch to drones. On the rare occasion things get hot, work from a frigate. The other 99% of the time, keep it cheap and simple. This is the same reason t...
by shark bait
20 May 2020, 08:51
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion
Replies: 11679
Views: 1076313
Location: Pitcairn Island

Re: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion

Why make things so complicated? The navy has never expected mine hunters to put up a fight. Now we're taking the humans away, making surviving even less of an issue.

Keep It Simple Stupid. If you don't the Navy gets even smaller.
by shark bait
19 May 2020, 16:44
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: River Class (OPV) (RN)
Replies: 3309
Views: 371753
Location: Pitcairn Island

Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

They have bigger fish to fry
by shark bait
19 May 2020, 16:23
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: River Class (OPV) (RN)
Replies: 3309
Views: 371753
Location: Pitcairn Island

Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Best thing to do it's forget all this forwarding nonsense and transfer all the Rivers to a new law enforcement HM Coastguard. The Navy has lots of issues, and does not need to create even more problems for itself, so let a coastguard deal with maritime security, and let the Navy focus on its core ac...
by shark bait
19 May 2020, 16:14
Forum: Royal Navy
Topic: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion
Replies: 11679
Views: 1076313
Location: Pitcairn Island

Re: Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion

Very low chance of the Navy having enough money for a bespoke mince clearance platform. There's a big list of projects needing funds, so a bespoke MCM ship that only benefits the fringe use cases is going to be low on that list. 99% of MCM work is in a low threat environment, and the mission bays ca...

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